Your Trustee and Ethics in a Pandemic - What your community can do to prepare
Your Trustee & Ethics in a Pandemic – What Your Community Can Do To Prepare
Thursday 18D
Convener: Adrian Gropper
Notes-taker(s): Stew Whitman
Tags for the session - technology discussed/ideas considered:
Try to read this first https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2020/04/29/covid19-privacy-surveillance-community-organizations/
COVID-19 Immunity-Credentials Decentralized-Governance SSI Authorization Server
Discussion notes, key understandings, outstanding questions, observations, and, if appropriate to this discussion: action items, next steps:
Introduction of Adrian’s Blog post http://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2020/04/29/covid19-privacy-surveillance-community-organizations/
There are various contact tracing and immunity passport applications being developed
Does there have to be a zero sum game between public health information and privacy
When it comes to using technology for these applications …..
Many of the things we are talking about do not need a network effect at the national level that can be effective at the local level.
The technology may be better applied locally and where there are specific applications of local community needs.
Physicians and local public health are trusted entities…..
Felt that the final hypothesis from yesterday would stop the community from designing these applications. There are too many ethics and issues that are unresolved.
Creates paralysis of action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q6ZDtCayh8&feature=youtu.be
Stew: Comparisons of to the paper based vaccination “yellow card”
Aidrian: Creating a trustee for the future preparedness to truly decentralize
Who are you sharing your information with, which information is being shared, the role of the trustee allow to sign
Differential privacy and differential aggregation at the community level, you can strip out the PII to provide contribution to public health data.
Complications of the ontology of the symptomatic descriptors are not public domain.
From scottmace to Everyone: 12:59 PM Adrian, the AMA owns the CPT codes, not the ICD-10 codes
Anil: Separate Contact tracing from Immunity Passports, conflating these leads to problematic decision
Need to look at each application in terms of use and abuse vectors.
Anil’s view is not on the contact tracing more on the immunity passport, it is not to do with technology, in the current cycle of the pandemic, disenfranchised communities are asymmetrically impacted by COVID. Those populations don’t have the luxury of WAH so the immunity passport needs to be focused on this population.
Stew: Do we need to design solutions for those populations?
Anil: Anything that goes into pilot, in an emergency, will get deployed and that is worrying because the ethics have not been fully thought out.
Adrian: if the half baked solutions go to market are we creating an ethical situation
Adhar, Govt. of India forcing populations into biometric identity programs. Within the context of Adhar the system of ??india Stack?? as a way to store documents wrt health documents.
Anil: My 90 yr old mom has paper Adhar card, and if it needs to be used, Anil’s nephew goes and presents it on her behalf.
@Adrian. Read your paper - TU. Trust is so important in public health. One of my clients are interfaith congregations and they serve the most oppressed. We have changed public policy on homelessness and sanctuary for immigrants and refugees in WA state. As a former gubernatorial appointee in environment and public health, I serve on multiple committees advising governors in WA and NY. - on COVID-19 response
Adrian: If we give people meaningful choices around their community and their trustee, not state coercion, in the form of, church, charity, civic organization.
Stew: Pvt sector companies designing solutions, those who can (e.g. privileged) are able to opt in, this creates an ethical divide from the marginalized populations.
Neil: Canadian perspective, Community servant, have many elderly and “marginalized” populations. BC Gov is pursuing digital identity aggressively. We are not spending the resource to find an advocate for digital consent and act on their behalf in a controlled manner. Need the concept of an SSI notary. Then we need the physical token that is not a digital device, eg smart card that encodes the key information. There is the concept of the last mile. People have trust in their local community organizations (the “last mile” of volunteer service delivery), even as Canada and BC govt are creating root DID. It can be like census data, DMA ZIP aggregating. Option of consent for a local proxy. Adrian: Even while we have a trustee as a model, we originally had the prescription use case, we needed VCs to be serial so that the Dr has VC, the patient does not need to have the ID VC, by only a place to store the Dr. VC for the prescription. So there has to be a bonded intermediary. Govt. issue credential to the expert, e.g Dr.
Scott: how does a digital notary get created? Adrian: Digital notary was solved for within the Etherium specification ……
Adrian: Going back to Anil, you didn't want to touch contact tracing, but you’re ok with immunity passports. I don't see those any differently.
Anil: We will have to agree to disagree. The rails that are being put into place with Google / Apple APis for contact tracing. Are you OK with Google or Apple being the gatekeeper to immunity or contact tracing. I need to look around the corner to put in compensating controls.
Stew: Clarifying comments on innovation from the sources of innovation between private and public sources
Anil: In the pandemic you are seeing the dependencies, greatness, and flaws of the public service. There is going to be market mass coming from Google / Apple……...
From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone: 01:34 PM http://www.appassay.org Johannes is doing this The Government bonds labs as to competence in running test samples for results. Is there not the same bonding exercise needed in the contact tracing case?
Adrian: Apple & Google should not be the organization to self-certify their applications and the contact tracing process
Anil: The perceived problem with Apple/Google will extract a price for the service at some point in future. Only disagree on matter of timing
Neil: The reality of (current manual) contact tracing is decentralized, there is no reason that the technology cannot do the same.
Attaching the Zoom Chat:
From Grace Rachmany to Everyone: 12:45 PM
I would like to take the time to read
From Adrian Gropper to Everyone: 12:46 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q6ZDtCayh8&feature=youtu.be
From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone: 12:59 PM
so are you talking to the Overlays Architecture folks like Paul Knowles
he is working on this in CovidCreds.com some how…
From scottmace to Everyone: 12:59 PM Adrian, the AMA owns the CPT codes, not the ICD-10 codes
From Karen Advocate to Everyone: 01:05 PM @Adrian. Read your paper - TU. Trust is so important in public health. One of my clients are interfaith congregations and they serve the most oppressed. We have changed public policy on homelessness and sanctuary for immigrants and refugees in WA state. As a former gubernatorial appointee in environment and public health, I serve on multiple committees advising governors in WA and NY. - on COVID-19 response
From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone: 01:30 PM what is the link Adrian?
From Adrian Gropper to Everyone: 01:31 PM https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2020/04/29/covid19-privacy-surveillance-community-organizations/
From Kaliya Identity Woman to Everyone: 01:34 PM http://www.appassay.org Johannes is doing this
From Karen Advocate to Everyone: 01:40 PM Share your concerns Anil. Sadly in addition to concerns about Google or Apple, I don't trust our current federal government - way too politicized and many experts not listened to or removed.
From Stew Whitman to Everyone: 01:40 PM Hey can someone take over the notes. I need to take another call. http://docs.google.com/document/d/1qoH3JFvrFsyMkNPlWoCU8QRGg3dv6SewjHtShB_x7ME/edit
