Me2B Intro & Org Finder Wiki

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Me2B Intro & Org Finder Wiki

Wednesday 8G

Convener: Lisa Levasseur

Notes-taker(s): Scott Mace

Tags for the session - technology discussed/ideas considered:


Discussion notes, key understandings, outstanding questions, observations, and, if appropriate to this discussion: action items, next steps:

Me2B Alliance, market creation through consumer awareness

Did a presentation at MyData 2019 Helsinki last week

Vision: Ensuring human dignity and agneyc in connected products and services.

Real challenge, how do we influence change.

As we sat trying to figure out our principles, want to bring this concept of Me2B relationships in the common vernacular. No longer buy things like a 1 to 1 moment in time. It’s an ongoing stream of bidirectional transactions with service providers and brands in general. We’re having relationships with them but we don’t think of them as relationships.

We have more of these kinds of relationships than we do anything else – our personal, family relationships. I really want to get people thinking about the fact that this is a relationship. Hold it to the standards of relationships.

We know how to behave in relationship. As social animals, we’ve developed a lot of universal principles.

This list started from the characteristics for healthy human relationship.

Me2B Rules of Engagement.

  • Freedom
  • Respect of Boundaries
  • Repspectful Defaults
  • Fairness & Non-exploitation
  • Good communication
  • Non-harming
  • Problem solving

This is the ethnical underpinning of Me2B. 3 principles

  1. I’m in charge
  2. We agree to play nice
  3. No data without Me2B relationship. (I need to elevate it to a Me2B principal on the web site)

A direct confrontation with data brokers.

How do we get there?

The world everybody is trying to get to is a word where there’s more good technology choices than not. That is not the world we live in today. Today we have precious few.

Interesting discussion at VRM day.

  • Thought leadership
  • Community building
  • Movement / activism
  • Common vocabulary

The first priority the room collectively thought

  • Standards
  • Codes of practice
  • Certification
  • Interoperability*

The individual being the point of interoperability

  • Governance
  • Rights
  • Policy / regulation
  • Ethnical business models (proven examples)

A free relationship is more valuable than a surveilled capitalism relationship. A hypothesis. We need data to back that up.

Consumer education and marketing.

Hypothesis: Most people are not fully aware of the risks. We ran a session yesterday on a harms dictionary we are building, to create a resource for people so they can understand what the harms are.

Vendor education and marketing.

I take for granted vendors are aware of what they should be doing and what the rules of engagement are. Enormous lift of vendor education and marketing.


It’s vital to actually deliver on this.


A different kind of standards organization. I was in cellular and internet standards.

Coming out of CDMA, CDMA Development Group, CDMA spec wasn’t interoperable. A huge problem. The market was created because the standards org specified what interoperability was, and certified, and did PR. I saw the power of how a standards body could create a market. Another example was Bluetooth. A long road but they made it.

  • Multi-stakeholder by design
  • More than technical specification. Ethics & usability
  • Results / change-focused

We were talking about dark patterns. Nefarious use of UX to manipulate in sometimes harmful ways. Usability is often an afterthought. Certainly not regarded in any standards work.

Doing surgical strikes of things.

Tactic #1: Create the means to collect, amplify, and share the voice of the individual with technology vendors.

We have 100 people on our mailing list. Our work attracts lawyers.

Q: And they’re really cool lawyers.

Don Norman, father of human-centered design, is an advisor to us. But his lab at UCSD doesn’t have a lot of resources. We’re actively trying to foster this here at IIW

Kaliya: Recently formed SSI UX group. Sovrin plus non-Sovrin people. Some usability foment happening. At least a dialog with each other.

Mei Lin Fung: SAP might want to engage.

Thinking user panels, market research projects, for the whole community. We’re trying to raise all boats and get to the nirvana of more good technology than not. All our stuff is on our Web site. Did a code of practice, probably premature. Tried to create certification criteria. Were getting in the weeds, throwing it out and starting a new tack to going directly to consumers, what would change your mind of how to make safe technology choices.

Scott: Do not track

A lot of that no-tracking, touches 7012, we are using the customer commons no stalking use case for 7012. The respectful defaults, one of my personal missions in life is to get no tracking as the default. Just like it is in real life. Will also apply to real life as well. Have in our harms dictionary that hybridization situation.

Johannes: No tracking is not the objective. Tracking can be part of healthy relationship. In limited cases. Click-through agreements.

Sheldon’s agreement with Leonard. It’s that big.

Johannes: We have so many of those relationships. The pushing of upsells. Constant followups. Would be harmful in human relationships.

Q: Analogies in real world. I always start giving people 100% benefit of the doubt. If interaction in the internet worked that way…ask someone a question, if they say “well to be honest” I stop them with don’t waste my time with anything less than that. Would be nice to see that on the web.

Q: It’s like “with all due respect”

“I don’t mean to interrupt” but you are.

There’s precedent for tactic #1 in product design.

Tactic #2: Complement work already being done. Identify gaps, fill, glue, and support.

Multiple Stakeholder Organization by design

Me: People

2: Catalysts & support orgs

B: Businesses

We’ve commissioned a project to create a tool called an Org Finder Wiki. Just a living resource. Figure out who is working on SSI, dark patterns, deepfakes. To make sense of who we are. Today our index is Kaliya.

Kaliya: I would add Michael Becker. Stuff in our heads, constantly connecting. How do we get that knowledge out of our heads. Will be really helpful.

2019 projects:


  • Market research
  • Digital harms dictionary


  • Graph-based “Org Finder Wiki”


  • Code of practice
  • Certification mark
  • Policy & legal work

Working groups

  • Good CoPs WG – certification criteria
  • PaLs WG – policy & legal work, Richard Whitt, chair
  • Consumer Stakeholders WG – outreach & education, chair position is open
  • Usability & UX – new, chair position is open

Board of directors

  • Johannes Ernst
  • Lisa LeVasseur
  • Doc Searls
  • Joyce Searls

Get involved:

What is the target horizon for the work of each group.

Mei Lin: We shouldn’t try to load any one repository with everything. Me2B, a lot of things going on, let’s fit this so the pieces interoperate without any one piece trying to boil the ocean.

Johannes: Find events related to all of us, and local user groups. Meetup is not it.

Mei Lin: A group called Open Collective.

Q: Job search.