”Trust in Numbers” Ethical (and practical) Approach to Identity – Driven AI/Machine Learning

From IIW

“Trust in Numbers” Ethical (and Practical) Approach to Identity-Driven AI/Machine Learning

Wednesday 6F

Convener: Mike Kiser

Notes-taker(s): Matt Domsch

Tags for the session - technology discussed/ideas considered:

Discussion notes, key understandings, outstanding questions, observations, and, if appropriate to this discussion: action items, next steps:


Asad Ali

Adrian Gropper

Dick Hardt

Wendell Baker

Matt Domsch (notes)

4 others

**** Slides and academic paper available late November after conference publication

Conference link: https://digitaleweltmagazin.de/digicon/program/

Standards aspects

- Well-being - defining your ethical stance. Online Ethics Canvas. Who might you harm and how?

- Accountability - to whom? We often cede accountability and control to technology.  "Because the algorithm said so" isn't enough. Users must also hold you accountable.

- Transparency - Users must be able to see how you got to your answer. Explain the "why".

- Fairness - Bias and things you assume.

- User Data Rights - best current practice

Wendell: Similar to Ethical OS? and many others? John Rolls.

Adrian: like privacy policies? There are so many to choose from.

Wendell: If you'd go before an Institutional Review Board(IRB), this qualifies.

Determine the relative strength or weaknesses of an approach, compared to other algorithms, and compared to your own position over time.

Wendell: fairness can't be expressed as a fixed point.

Adrian: will run a session on ML in medicine later today.  None of this applies, because Medicine is science, nothing in secret.

The problem is we're turning it into a trade secret and business model, with ethics whitewashing afterwards.

Wendell: this is a way to pierce the trade secret system.

Adrian: but that's not the way open science should work. You've already ceded the ground.  We're pre-judging the outcome of how money is made vs how science is done.

Wendell: how is this related to other ethical sourcing: blood diamonds, oil money, coffee, ...

Mike: is there another measurement method?

Adrian: Efficiency?  Are we reducing friction only to have to control for bias?

Wendell: IRBs serve as a "confessional effect".

Wendell: is this like Mayak's trancendental effect, beyond human comprehension? Formal systems theory from MIT in the 1970s.

This is pretty subjective. Can we build a more objective measuring stick for each of these dimensions?

Similar to the Me2B Harms discussion yesterday.

Adrian: similar to introducing apps into an industry. 2 models:

1. mininmum bar, do no evil, gives maximum flexibilty to any business.

2. Consumer Reports style of strictly objective criteria

Ethics is neither a race the bottom, nor is it objective through standards and independent entities.

Institute for the Future Ethical OS.

Kantara is one of 3 FISMA certifiers.

Wendell: there are other maturity frameworks that this is similar to this work.

Design thinking 5 levels.

Adrian: Twitter #darkpatterns